PHOTOS, Sunday Pic
Comments 85

Sunday (well ok Saturday) Pic #11

As a little light relief from the gruelling saga of Madame X, Marcia from basilrathbone.net has suggested I post this pic in case anyone can ID the various people in the photos. It was taken in BR’s house on Los Feliz some time between 1935 when they moved in and 1939 when they made the transition to Bellagio Road.

The full size original (very large) can be seen and downloaded HERE, but here are some enlargements of the relevant sections to let you clearly see the various photos.

The ones over the desk…
losfelizdeskcrop1

And even closer…
losfelizdeskcrop3

And the ones on the wall to the left…
losfelizdeskcrop2

Some of these people can be identified. Ouida is conspicuous in several pics (to no one’s surprise I imagine; I mean she probably oversaw the placement and content of every object in the room, and wasn’t gonna let it seem like he could live without at least three versions of her fabulous features to gaze upon, right?) Marcia thinks the kid bottom center over the desk is Rodion and I agree it does look like it could be. Likewise I think his parents can be seen on the top row over the desk. And I believe the German Shepherd dog would be Moritz or Moritza.

But who are the other people? The one bottom left next to Rodion looks like a female child, aged maybe 2 or 3. I would suggest it might be his daughter, only I doubt Ouida would have been very happy with that child being represented on the wall.

Any thoughts or suggestions or instant recognitions?

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85 Comments

  1. I took the liberty of annotating your photos with what seem like the most likely identities so far, if the webmaster could perhaps find a way of including them with this post. I’m afraid my web skill are not up to it.

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    • the countess says

      Puppy is Happy. Happy is the only dog they have that looks like that. The other one the cockerspaniel Leo is solid. Happy is spotted. both doggies togather.side by side.

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      • the countess says

        Pretty lady below Mortiz Looks like one of Edgars sisters.Which one ? I’m not sure.Also could pos be one of Edgars bros insted of Edgar. Thought I had his bro Alfred in xzat pose but when I pulled out the copy it’s not xzatly the same.Them Rathbone boys all look alike I tell you.What a good lookin family.

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      • Roberta says

        I am not sure the markings on Happy are the same as the dog in the picture. If the woman in the hood is Kit Cornell then here is a thought. Cornell played Elizabeth Barrett on stage with Basil as Robert Browning. So could the photo be of Kit from that production and the spaniel be the dog who played Flush, Barrett’s spaniel??

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        • Ellen Foley says

          Had to add,in regard to Vinnie Price:watched him as an ole grandadin The Jackals yesterday,and he was great ham,only reason to watch movie IMHO.

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  2. Claude Rains says

    There are two copies of the same photo of Ouida. One on the table and one on the wall. Overkill much? πŸ˜€

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    • the countess says

      Not only that Claude can you belive..While looking for the puppy pic I found another pic of the same room dif angle what do i spy with my lil eye…wait for it…YEP. a 3rd of the same pic in the same room! how do i love thee? let you count… 3 pics of me to remind you. srsly everplace you look in the room is a pic of Weedy.

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      • Unless I’m seeing things every single photo on that book case that I can identify is of Ouida. Gosh he must have loved her absolutely LOADS!

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      • Actually, it’s not the same room, different angle. This pic is of the library in the Bel Air house, taken a few years later. But your point of the abundance of Weedy pics is valid!

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        • GRETCHEN says

          I believe those are record-jackets, NOT books, on the shelves.

          My dad has a BUNCH of those things—they APPEAR to be “books”, but they each hold several records in paper sleeves (kind-of like modern CD/DVD binders), with the “theme” of the collection written on the spine. For example: “Mozart’s Greatest Symphonic Classics”, or something like that. They are supposed to make storing (and finding) your record-collections MUCH easier than having all those separate covers, and they look more appealing on your shelves. The large ones are for the slower-speed records, and the smaller ones hold the little high-speed records.

          Just thought I’d let ya KNOW! πŸ™‚

          (BTW—Ouida probably made a DEAL with Baz to “allow” him to have his little private record-shelves and stereo in “HER” home, as long as he put TONS-O-PICS of her on top of them! By the contented look of “aaahhh” on his face, I’d say they were his ONLY form of solace and relaxation, away from ALL that constant hustle and bustle at the house…and those PARTIES!!) πŸ˜‰

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  3. Perhaps the pictures of the girl child are of Ouida as a kid? Or even Basil’s sister. The picture of the soldier looks like a picture of John I saw somewhere before. And the ones on the top on either side of the kid are of his parents (as mentioned). I recognize the man and the lady in the hood on the bottom picture – but I can’t remember who they are! 😦 Could the lady under Moritz be his sister? She looks kind of like him.
    On a side note – Basil has horrid posture in that picture! πŸ˜€ He’s gonna kill his back!

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    • Ellen Foley says

      OR photos as child,you mean something that might have date stamp,proving that she wasn’t younger than her most faous hubby?Would love it if there were other pics of Bea after that one of the 3 siblings in IAOOC.

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      • Fervent Researcher says

        I agree. I also think the child next to young Rodion, bottom center might also be Rodion at a younger age.

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  4. Sea Biscuit says

    The little girl’s clothes look 1920s or 1930s to me, not Edwardian so I do not think it is Beatrice. When you say “his daughter” I don’t think that’s possible either as Cynthia was not born until 1939. Perhaps it is a niece? Or could it be Ouida jr?

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    • Neve was referring to Basil’s illegitimate daughter (discussed elsewhere on this site). But I think it’s unlikely that Ouida would have condoned hanging portraits of that daughter.

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      • the countess says

        Pretty good bet there Marcia. Prob. had some hid someplace though I bet. Not to be crude but in his bed room or on his person would be safe from Weedy…Of course keeping them in his wallet would never be safe from her.

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        • Ellen Foley says

          Countess,are you sure he wasn’t subjected to daily searches of his person/personal space?I’d say anyone as controlling as the mrs would treat him like a child.Only thing unsafe in his wallet was the cash/credit,fingers prob too plump to dig out photos.Now,Ms Foley,be nice,don’t go getting too much like granny Irish.

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          • the countess says

            Weedy touch Basil long enough to search him? May I remind you “What are you doing Basil? Kissing You. Well Dont!” But then again this IS the woman counting the grapes.

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          • Ellen Foley says

            Well,when you say “search me,do I really have to dear?You know I just washed my hair!”Now,if he had a big wad of cash she could see,she’d search his pockets,wouldn’t mind searching his back pockets,oh,all of them,give him a thrill,after all if it’s ok for starlets to check him out.Now,now Granny Foley,be nice.Can see like others posted love match w/o sex because of wife’s trauma,if it’s true she would deserve sympathy,but the way she went thru hubbies needs real ‘splaining,as Ricky Ricardo used to say-and OR a Catholic yet!Sorry,don’t think past abuse qualifies as serial marriage,and IMHO,Cyn was a pawn in messed up game that should have never deprived spouse or child of true affection.Give up party throwing and concentrate on child rearing.One or two parties a year should be plenty to host.I speak as a Catholic,maybe priests aren’t sensitive enough to abuse issues,but she needed to see other than psychics for help.

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  5. Brad says

    If that older gentleman with gray hair is Jack Miltern then did he not look a lot like Basil’s own father? Was this what drew Basil to him? I mean he had been robbed of most of his own family right after the war, with the death of his brother and mother and the curious absence of Beatrice, and even his father ceased to be a father-figure and became a dependent. This must have been very hard to bear in his already traumatized state, so perhaps Miltern offered some sense of familiarity and being taken care of? Perhaps he and Ouida became extraordinarily strange and to some extent dysfuntional parent-figures. Which might also explain Basil’s willingness to go along with de-sexualizing the relationship with Ouida.

    If this is pop-psychology and easy-Freudian bull crap then I fervently apologize.

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    • Ellen Foley says

      Very good observation,Brad,in fact excellent.We appreciate profound contributions to complete the enigma that was our Baz.Makes sense why he settled into daily life with Jack & OR.

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  6. Margaret G says

    Am I the only one who wishes I could read the titles of those books? They look well-read. It reminds me of that article on this site that describes Basil’s books as having been used and annotated and loved.

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  7. rosebette says

    For that top portrait above J. Miltern and the cocker spaniel, could it be Diana Wynard? The profile looks like her, and B. was in The Devil Passes with her.

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      • rosebette says

        I think it’s Diana Wynard. Gladys Cooper’s nose is smaller and perkier, and her bone structure more delicate. I have another picture of Wynard which gives you an idea why I may have thought the portrait was of Norma Shearer.

        Let me see if I can post it.

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  8. the countess says

    Will blow up and see what I can match with pics of Edgars family I have but right of hand,the man below Edgar..looks like an older pic of Edgar..so probly be his father.or one of his dads bro.
    Mortz in upper corner.Bottom center boy i swear looks like Basil in school age..also its same boy in Couch pic the boy on left by lamp shade.
    Bottom set bottom pic Kat Cornell.Above her a cocker spaniel puppy /or/ pos king charles spaniel puppy.Somebody check the doggy pics.for match? Love it because the dogs are a part of your family you know.Top set lady in oval frame my guess Barbara.They get grannie fast the bigger you make them. second set of pics behind cut doggy statue.Is little boy not girl. pretty lady above him in velvet dress is cir. 1880s or pos early 90s wish I could make out neckline on dress better. The BIG leg-o-mutton sleve came in fashion with a vengence 1895-6 her sleves look earlyer.Fashion is a great way to date a pic.[dont think so? look at your highschool pics.]Being able to date a pic can help figuer out folks.Gosh her ace is familuer to me.
    Lady in center pic in front of house..got me on that one no guess at all. It only blurs as i blow it up.Any body recognise the house? Some could be the Weddy side of family too.I may have found names for her family but no photos of any of them yet.And did anyone notice the same pic twice..Jezzzze.I want to turn that frame around and see the pic in side faceing Basil. Def caught the golf pic behind the ink well.

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      • Of course you could be right, but I think the schoolboy in white collar looks more like Rodion. And the baby at the top could be John or Bea or even Basil as a baby. Since Baz was so close to his brother John, I think it’s likely that he would display several pics of John. The soldier in uniform is certainly John. BUT, if Ouida created the photo display of Basil’s family, it’s more likely that the baby in between Mom and Dad is Basil.

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        • the countess says

          The reason why I think it is Bea. Is if you look at the pic of the 3 of them her hair is more wavy then either of the boys.

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          • Ellen Foley says

            And Bea’s hair seemed more like Edgar’s hair color,too.Thought he maybe was a ginger,Edgar that is.

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  9. Margaret G says

    I’m almost sure I recognize the woman at the top of the third photo. Is it Gladys Cooper?

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  10. Is the lady in the hood Vivien Leigh? By the way – I too am absolutely fascinated by the X material, please keep posting.

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  11. rosebette says

    I do think one of the pictures is of John (possibly in uniform) and maybe the little girl is Bea as a child. The bottom picture in the second set you displayed is clearly Kit Cornell. I don’t know who the woman in profile is — she could be Norma Shearer. I think there are only 2 or 3 of Ouida, which isn’t excessive, even if we don’t like her — she’s his wife, after all.

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    • You might be right about Kit Cornell. I can see a resemblance. I’m not confident in saying it’s her, though. I’m sure that’s Jack Miltern next to the dog. I don’t know the woman above the dog, but I don’t think she looks like Norma Shearer.

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    • No, I don’t think that’s Norma Shearer – I have a couple profile pics of her, and that one doesn’t look quite right. IMO. πŸ™‚

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    • You’re so right Rosebette. I’m letting my freely acknowledged and growing dislike of Ms Branch/Burgess/Bergere/FitzMaurice/Rathbone color my judgement. πŸ™‚

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    • Necromancer's Daughter says

      I would say THREE pics of one person in one room – when you live with them and see them every day – is sliiightly OTT. πŸ™‚ You have to wonder how many pics of her there were in total in the rest of the house.

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  12. BASIL says

    I can see a few pictures from Basils autobiography! I love the little pictures of his parents! Aw!
    (Am I the only one who spotted the golf course picture in the original? :3)

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  13. Leila Travers says

    Could th child in between his parents be Beatrice or John? And is that John in the army uniform?

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  14. Roberta says

    The boy is definitely Rodion. How sad and touching that he kept pictures of the boy he barely saw!

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    • Ellen Foley says

      Wish X was here to have you call her a liar.What did she or any other woman,i.e. Eva LeG stand to gain by lying and you’re calling Eva’s biographer a liar,too.It feels right to me what both these women had to say about being with a very decent man and no matter how I feel about adultery,being Catholic,plenty of other people have cheated,and without their life partner turning a blind eye.If he was happy with Eva and X,then I’m happy,even if he wasn’t with either woman for long.Save your disputing the truth for your own blog,this is Neve’s with much added info and positive info from the regular bloggers.You have the right to say as you want as long as you back it up,same as whatever I say.

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      • Ellen Foley says

        Middle pictures on bottom row def Rodion,judging from his later pictures while at home with OR/BR.Looks def like his parents on either side of Rodion as tot in top row,agree.

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        • Ellen Foley says

          Lady in the hood def looks familiar.Wondered if one of pix was Norma,too.Think the diary refuting X was hand-crafted,composed by The Weeder.Too convenient that there’s so much refuting pos affairs.With all the servant’s in the house,I’d go find comfort elsewhere,thinking I was gonna be stoned by the minions,not just clawed by the big cat.Chop down a cherry tree,not attack the breadwinner.Surprised she didn’t sic dogs on Baz,or let fly with the canary.In his refuge,surprised if pix should be solely his choice,they do look like they would be.Pix of Rodion,it is nice to see some of him as a child,but why not as adult,too?What a time during WWII for Baz,rejected for military,but ok to shell out for War Relief,parties for charity,then called everything under the sun for not placing life on line to return home to Merry Olde England by tabloid journalists,WWIII going on at his castle in LaLaLand,even with dispensation for loving outside marriage,cuz they weren’t sharing a bed,nor even same general area of house for sleeping quarters.(sort of like Monty and wife in The Black Cat w/Gladys Cooper as his wife,love that pairing,imagine OR/BR like them).Then,he becomes inc disgusted with his most famous role as SH,and critics say how bored he looked,when in reality he wasn’t well,suffered migraines,lost weight-if his migraines are nything like Headaches I’ve had,I really feel for Baz.Feeling like your headin a vise,sorry for getting off subject here of photos.No wonder in his letter to X he talked of how he tried to walk into line of fire during WWI,takes greater stuff to go on after losing as much as Baz did in time of war-mother,brother,love for family,comrades,trying to kill pain with booze,drugs,sex.Like Constance Collier said of him,it was slow suicide.And sure it was painful to watch and unable to help someone prob unwilling to accept intervention.

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        • Ellen Foley says

          The photo of Edgar,from IAOOC,the one under it def looks like an older Edgar.Almost came to me who Hooded Lady was.This is fun,trying to put names to faces.Thanks,Neve,what a break from the saga of Lady X.You know how to lighten the serious mood,and no I’m being serious saying how great this is.Good to see his pix of dogs included in fond photos,nice to look at while reading scripts.If bottom photos of young boy are Baz,striking resemblance of father and son,as I thought those school pix of Rodion.

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    • Denise deVere says

      Because if he or more likely Ouida put pictures of her in his den he can’t possibly have fallen in love with another woman five years later?

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      • Brad says

        @Rebekah and Alyssia – do you think X’s story contradicts his autobiography? Because I am not sure it does. As NeveR points out very well in an article here (I’m not sure of the URL but maybe NeveR can add it?), Basil begins his book by stating that he WILL NOT TALK about any problems or scandal. And he is also very careful never to say his was a happy marriage.

        It’s quite clear he felt indebted to Ouida and responsible for her, but this doesn’t mean he necessarily was in love with her. For me X’s narrative fits very well with other things we have learned about his marriage from various sources. I see a traumatized man who became intensely attached to Ouida as his “salvation” or similar. It was a kind of love, but not predominantly sexual or romantic, and probably more destructive than constructive.

        I don’t think any of that contradicts his book does it? His book was for public consumption and told simplified version of a very complex story, and one which he admits leaves out all the most intimate and troubling events.

        That’s only my view of course but I’m interested about why you take a different one?

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        • I take the man at his word, that’s all – I could be wrong, I’ve been wrong before, but from all that I have read I see Basil as being hopelessly in love with Ouida (actually, I don’t remember where I read it, but I did read that he said he was a happy man and so was his marriage) My mother, who read In and Out of Character, was stunned the first time I told her people claimed Ouida and Basil were not happily married. She said it simply didn’t make sense. From all I have read of him I just cannot see that it is true that this “Madam X” could be what it’s claimed she is. I just can’t – it may be my mindset, and I think the main reason so many others take an opposite view is simply because of their mindset as well. I don’t want to be nasty or mean or anything, but it just frustrates me because I feel that my side of things has just as much evidence as the other side but none of them will pay attention to it.
          oh, and one thing you said there, love does not have to be sexual (although they did try to have kids several times) you don’t have to have sex with someone to love them, and you don’t have to love someone to have sex with them. just thought I’d mention that. πŸ™‚
          I hope I’m making sense. God bless!

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          • Anita says

            Like Brad I’m not in any way trying to get into an argument or downgrade your opinion. I’m just really puzzled. You say you want to take Basil at his word – but which word? There’s his word in his autobiography but also his word in those private letters. Which is more likely to be the whole truth?

            When you say you don’t see how Madame X could be “what it’s claimed she is” then again I get puzzled. I don’t see anyone claiming she is anything. All we are being given here is the document itself. An interview. The only way it could be untrue is if Madame X herself was making it up. But since we also have those letters, how is that possible?

            I hope you don’t mind me asking and please don’t feel picked on or anything, I am only trying to get a handle on what the debate is about.

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            • Right, I understand. πŸ™‚ Perhaps I chose the wrong words. When I first read the letter I myself was suspicious cause the writing seemed rather different to me, and Alyssia has letters/diary of Basil himself and says that the writing is quite un-similar. I also find the writing style (the diction) a bit different as well.
              Again, like I said, I could be wrong (I don’t think I am, though πŸ™‚ ), but I prefer to see the best in people until I am convinced beyond any shadow of doubt that it is otherwise.
              God bless!

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              • Anita says

                Ok thanks Rebekah for a good answer. I much appreciate it. I now get where you are coming from a lot more clearly. You are thinking the letter might not have been written by Basil, or that it and the interview might have been forged?

                Here’s my thinking on that. It’s always possible any document has been forged.Even the ones in museums can turn out to have been put together by someone. So you can only go by likelihoods. But my first question would be, what would be the motive for faking this stuff? From what Neve said no one has made money from it, it’s not going into some five or six -figure sum book deal or something. I don’t get why anyone would bother.

                As to the “diary” Alyssia claims she has, well she hasn’t even proved she has it yet! She hasn’t published anything from it or shown one bit of the handwriting, so I don’t think it makes sense to use her word that the writing isn’t Basil’s. But maybe the blogmaster can do a straight comparison with Basil’s handwriting from other letters to be fair and see if what Alyssia says has any truth in it?

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    • the countess says

      Is this pic at all dateable? Whats the date on the golf pic? Oh and it’s about 7 after 1 in the pic. And thats a nifty crucifex[sp?] on the desk.

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      • It’s in the house on Los Feliz so it’s datable between 1935 and 1939, but whether it can be narrowed down any more I don’t know.

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      • Yes! I’ve narrowed it down. This photo of Baz at his desk appeared in the February 1938 issue of Picture Play. The article is called “First Host of Hollywood.” The writer and photographer probably visited BR in late 1937 to interview him and take pictures.

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